John EDWARDS Sr. [Parents] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 was born 7, 8 on 27 Jun 1809 in York, Yorkshire, England. He was christened on 09 Jul 1809 in St. Sampson, York, Yorkshire, England. He died 9, 10, 11, 12 on 25 May 1889 in Taita, Wellington, New Zealand from "Fatty degeneration of heart". He was buried 13, 14 on 28 May 1889 in St. James Church, Taita, Wellington, New Zealand. Totara Jack married 15 Mary JONES on 19 Oct 1831 in Bedwellty, Monmouth, Cymru.
Totara Jack immigrated 16 on 28 Oct 1842 to "Olympus" at Nelson, New Zealand.
-- His signature on his marriage record in Wales and his will in New Zealand seem to match about 85-90%! So this trick came off well. Also, the Jones family next to the Edwards's on the boat were the very same family in Bedwellty, Monmouth, Cymru. Notes I took of John Edwards who married Mary Jones in Wales from 1831-1834 20 years ago can be found below. One of them, married in 1831 just happened to be in Bedwellty, same parish as the supposed brother of Mary Jones. Pretty much already nailed, SRE, 9 Mar 2018.
-- Good web pages, which talk about Nelson, New Zealand; and a passenger list of the Olympus that the Edwards (and Jones) family(ies) came over on are: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~ourstuff/genealogy/Olympus42.htm, SRE, 18 Aug 2009.
-- Olympus manifest taken into alphabetical order and out of original order (in the original order the Jones family is right next to the Edwards family and I think is a brother to Mary Jones, wife of John Edwards Sr.:
OLYMPUS - 1842 (NZ Co)
=============================================================================================
Copyright (c)2001 Carol Whyte Auckland New ZealandCaptain John Whyte
Surgeon Dr Henry Manning----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OLYMPUS, 500 tons, sailed from Deptford on 13 Jun 1842, left Gravesend on 16 Jun 1842 arrived
in Nelson, 28 Oct 1842.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------FORMAT
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
last first marital
name, name status age details----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cabin - 5
Manning, Henry surgeon
Rowe, Anthony s 21
Thorp, Charles s 21
Weightmann, Wm Alexr s 23
Wells?, William s 32 (Wales? Webes?)Steerage - 134
Anthony, Alfred m 22 ag. labourer
Anthony, Sarah m 20 wife
Bagnall, William m 35 carpenter, joiner
Bagnall, Lydia m 34 wife
Bagnall, Mary c 11
Bagnall, Ann c 9
Bartlett, John m 37 lab
Bartlett, Maria m 34 wife
Bartlett, Joseph c 12
Bartlett, Thomas c 10
Bartlett, Ann c 7
Bartlett, Mary c 3
Bartlett, Robert c inf
Batt, John m 26 ag. labourer
Batt, Ann m 20 wife
Bomforth, Henry m 22 woodturner
Bomforth, Caroline m 21 wife
Bomforth, Martha c 9 mo
Bomforth, John m 37 carpenter
Bomforth, Harriet m 38 wife
Bomforth, Harriet Maria s 14 seamstress
Bomforth, Sarah Jane c 11
Bomforth, Eliza c 7
Bomforth, Mary c 5
Bomforth, George c 3
Bomforth, James inf
Chant, William m 25 gen labourer
Chant, Eliza m 21 wife
Chant, Ellen inf
Childs, Charles s 21 baker paid
Clark, Ishmael m 35 carpenter
Clark, Betsy m 34 wife
Clark, George c 11
Clark, Thomas c 7
Clark, Rhoda c 2
Clark, Elizabeth inf
Clark, Joseph m 25 farm servant
Clark, Amelia m 27 wife
Edwards, John m 32 carpenter joiner
Edwards, Mary m 33 wife
Edwards, Jane c 8
Edwards, John c 7
Edwards, William c 3
Edwards, Robert c 3 mo
Hall, Edward m 25 tailor
Hall, Elizabeth m 26 wife
Hall, John c 2
Hall, Sarah inf
Harvey, William m 38 sawyer
Harvey, Hannah m 38 wife
Harvey, William jnr s 20 sawyer
Harvey, Abraham s 18 sawyer
Harvey, Hannah s 16 seamstress
Harvey, Nathan s 14 labourer
Harvey, Harriett c 12
Harvey, Catherine c 4
Hewitson, Joseph m 37 ag labourer
Hewitson, Jane m 21 wife
Hewitson, - c 10 (child by former wife)
Hough, William m 34 millwright sawyer
Hough, Ann m 24 wife
Hough, Ellen Susannah c 5
Hough, Mary Ann c 1
Hough, Sarah c 1 mo
Johnson, George m 23 smith
Johnson, Martha m 21 wife
Jones, William m 34 carpenter joiner
Jones, Margaret m 33 wife
Jones, William Henry c 9
Jones, Cecilia c 6
Knapp, James m 21 masons labourer
Knapp, Ellen m 17 wife
Knight, Mary s 16 domestic servant, sister of Ann Batt
Laney, Edward m 34 baker
Laney, Mary m 31 wife (see: White)
Laney, William inf
Lucas, Charles m 22 shoemaker
Lucas, Elizabeth m 23 wife
Lucas, Lucy Jane c 1
Matthews, Charles m 37 ag. labourer
Matthews, Eliza m 37 wife
Matthews, Thomas c 11
Matthews, Sarah Ann c 9
Matthews, Richard c 7
Matthews, Mary c 5
Matthews, Naomi c 1
Moulder, William m 25 gardener
Moulder, Mary Ann m 28 wife
Moulder, William c 3
Moulder, Eliza c 1
Palmer, William m 36 ag labourer, mason, builder
Palmer, Elizabeth m 33 wife
Palmer, Ann c 10
Palmer, Hannah c 8
Palmer, Job c 5
Palmer, William c 2
Phillips, William s 22 carpenter paid
Price, Thomas m 35 gardener
Price, Dinah m 33 wife
Price, Caroline c 11
Price, John c 9
Price, Sarah c 7
Price, Joseph c 5
Price, Thomas c 3
Price, Ann c 1
Prior, John m 22 carpenter, wheelwright
Prior, Alice m 21 wife
Tilley, Jonathon m 29 shoemaker
Tilley, Mary m 34 wife
Tilley, William c 5
Tilley, Mary c 2
Trask, Joseph m 27 farm labourer
Trask, Jane m 28 wife
Trask, Alfred George c 1
Warner, Richard m 23 quarryman, blacksmith
Warner, Eliza m 23 wife
Warner, Richard jnr. c 1
Wenmoth, William m 36 carpenter joiner
Wenmoth, Nancy m 38 wife
Wenmoth, Eliza c 7
Wenmoth, Joseph c 4
White, Henry c 10 (mother Mrs Laney)
White, Ann c 8 (mother Mrs Laney)
White, Charles m 34 bricklayer, ag labourer
White, Hannah m 34 wife
White, Mary Ann c 13
White, William c 9
White, Sarah Jane c 5
Woodward, Eleanor s 18 dressmaker
Woodward, Margaret s 27 dressmaker
Woodward, Robert m 23 blacksmith
Woodward, Margaret m 22 wife
STEERAGE:
Married 60
Single men 5
Single women 7
----
72Children:
7-13 yrs 27
1-6 yrs 26
under 1 yr 9
----
62TOTAL: 134 SOULS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOURCES:
©Examiner 29 Oct 1842, pg 134
Auckland Central City Library (1998): 44-46 Lorne St, Auckland City, New
Zealand, or PO Box 4638, Auckland 1001, New Zealand.-------------------------------- G E N EE o N Z ---------------------------------------------
t r a n s c r i b e d & c o l l a t e d b yCarol Whyte, Auckland, New Zealand
10 January 2001
http://www.geocities.com/wlorac/olym1842.txt
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR GENERAL VIEW OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC WITHOUT PAYMENT OF FEES OR PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP-- IF YOU FIND A JOHN EDWARDS MARRRYING A MARY JONES AND THEN A JANE EDWARDS MARRIED ABOUT 1833 SOMEWHERE IN WALES EVENTUALLY, AND THEN A JANE EDWARDS BORN 3 FEB 1834 IN THE SAME PARISH, I'D SAY YOU HAVE THE RIGHT MARY JONES. THIS IS PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THIS FOR NOW -- WAIT FOR SOME BIRTH AND MARRIAGE INDEXES. THIS IS A LONG SHOT, SINCE JANE WAS CHRISTENED IN ENGLAND, BUT SOMETIMES A CHRISTENING RECORD MIGHT OCCUR IN MULTIPLE PARISHES, SRE 3 OCT 2004.
Here are 3 more possibilities I checked the IGI for. We've been told Jane Edwards was born in Wales and that John and Mary were married there, but what about border areas? Might be worth checking signatures of John from these three records with the one from his will (unless it's a copy of a record, in which case this won't work), SRE 3 Oct 2004.
1. JOHN EDWARDS
- International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Marriage: 08 AUG 1831 Ruyton Of The Eleven Towns, Shropshire, England 2. JOHN EDWARDS - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Marriage: 22 SEP 1829 Oswestry, Shropshire, England 3. JOHN EDWARD - International Genealogical Index / BI Gender: Male Marriage: 01 NOV 1831 Risca, Monmouth, England
MORE IDEAS FROM BYU GENEALOGY CONFERENCE 5 Aug 2004:
-- Naming patterns: Naming patterns in England: If you have names like Zachariah and Jeremiah, they are unusual, religious, probably non-conformist. Even Henry, David (common in Wales and Scotland, but not England), look at names of your known ancestors and compare them with all your possibles to narrow them down. In England, the oldest son named for father’s father. Naming patterns: In Scotland, and perhaps some of England in the north affected by this, as well. Very distinct naming patterns. 1st dau. named for father’s mother; 2nd dau. for mother’s mother; 3rd dau. for mother.B Date of birth calculated from death certificate and age listed on the shipping manifest. Death Certificate reports birth in England. Family last reported living in York, 1851, hence, approximated place. Everyone is at this locality though, and all family members fit into Charles Edwards' family and nowhere else.
M Evidence of marriage from children's birth registration, husband's death certificate and from the coroner's report of the death of the wife.
D 1989 NZ Reg. Gen. Registration: Actual death registration was examined C.H. Edwards. Father's & Mother's names obtained from death Cert. and from a record of the father Robert sending a letter of his son John to be published in The New Zealand Journal, 1 May 1849. WE NEED TO FIND HIS OBITUARY, IF ANY. HE WAS 80 YEARS OLD AND MAY HAVE HAD SOME KIND OF INFORMATION ON HIM IN AN OBIT. WE HAVE A WILL, CORONER'S INQUEST, DEATH CERTIFICATE, BUT NEED MORE INFO STILL.Two letters available written by John to his father, Robert?, in England.
Sailed to New Zealand with family: Nelson settlement, ship Olympus, 500 tons, Capt. John Whyte, Surgeon Superintendent, Wm. Henry Manning. Sailed from Gravesend, England 16 June 1842. Register of Emigrant labourers who have received free passage to NZ. No. on the application register: 5490 John Edwards-Carpenter and Joiner, Mary. Man's age 32, woman's age 33, 4 children: girl--age 8, boys aged 7, 3, and 3 mo. Date?
LOG/NOTES:
-- A John EDWARDS born to Robert EDWARDS and Mary PALMER in Martham, Norfolk 6 Mar 1810, bap 11 Mar 1933, End 7 Mar 1934 SLAKE, SP Pre-1970.
-- In his letters, he mentions someone that he came with named "B--". Check original shipping manifests (Olympus sailed 16 Jun 1842 from Gravesend, England to Nelson, NZ, arr. 28 Oct 1842) to see if someone whose name starts with a B. (and perhaps a carpenter/joiner) is listed next to him -- SRE 14 Jun 2001.
-- Also, check same source for possible relations. There is a William Jones (brother to his wife?) a carpenter/joiner, who also came on the same ship. See if they are next to each other in manifest -- SRE 14 Jun 2001.
-- Checked 1851 census CD for Warwickshire to find a Robert and Mary Edwards, parents of John Sr. Didn't find anything. But then, they were probably in York by that time. Not sure whether they originated in York, Birmingham, or elsewhere -- SRE 15 Jun 2001.
-- Want to find John Edwards Sr. in 1841 census, because this will tell whether he was born in the county. If he were found in London, and said he was born in county, it would lend credence to the argument that they were from London (see note below about possible brother to John, William, in "Register of York Freemen..."; if found in Birmingham and found in county, family was from there; if found in York, it would show that the family possibly came from York city or Hull -- SRE - 14 Jun 2001.
-- Checked Franklin Row in London 1841 census for John Edwards (several months before they left for NZ), but didn't find them there (FHL 438804, HO 107/688, book 14, folio 4-6; book # is large penciled in no. at bottom of page where enumerator tells where his beat was; this was in ED's 13 and 14). Also checked Camden St. (FHL 464177, HO 107//1140, book 5, folios 24-34, 38, 45-52; Found a William Edwards Grocer, 35, Cassandra, wife, 30, and Cassandra, daughter, 10) and Edmund St. (FHL 464181, HO 107/1144, book 4, folios 21, 24-34, 38, 40-45) in Birmingham (see births of children), same census. Nil. Perhaps they were elsewhere in Birmingham, London, Wales (w/Mary Jones' parents), or other locality -- SRE 14 Jun 2001.
-- Marriage or death certificate of one of John Sr.'s children in NZ (check with Clifford H. Edwards, who has copies of certificates, to find out which one), says that he came from "Hull, England." John Sr.'s will in NZ says that he lived in "Hull Co., New Zealand" at the time the will was made. Could the certificate-maker or informant for the marriage/death certifiate have confused these two? Or, if the child was born in Hull, England, there is another interesting development (see next note) -- SRE 14 Jun 2001.
-- Register of York Freemen 1680-1986 (BYU or FHL?) 942.74/Y1; U2m FROM THIS SOURCE, FOUND ON P. 146-7: "EDWARDS, ROBERT, OF HULL. BRICKLAYER, SON OF CHARLES EDWARDS. SHOEMAKER, FREE 1830. This is interesting, since, as mentioned in the previous note, a child of John Sr. was reported to have been born at Hull, ENGLAND (not NZ, which is also where they lived at one time). There is a Charles Edwards Shoemaker from Hull, England, possibly a father/brother to Robert? Addendum: SRE, 2 April 2017: Hull, as it refers to Robert, seems to be Hull, NZ. Interesting how Robert the son is connected again to Charles Edwards and Harriett Burnsides
-- There is also an entry in the same source for a "William Edwards OF LONDON, son of ROBERT EDWARDS, SHOEMAKER, free 1820." William could have been a brother of John Sr. He would have been free at just about the right time. Not sure if the Robert Edwards Shoemaker for this entry could have still been living in London? Or maybe William was born in London and he and father lived in York in 1820.
-- In application for emigration (no reference given, but scanned as source), he had two sons listed as "3". In shipping manifest, one was listed as 3, the other as 3 mo. If the 3 mo. one is correct, he should have been born 1st quarter 1842. I ordered birth certificates 14 Jun 2001 for all the following people named "Robert Edwards" with parents John and Mary Edwards. My letter:
To whom it may concern,
I would like to have you search some references for the birth of Robert Edwards. Please send me full certificates from the birth registers for only those of the following entries which show the parents as John and Mary Edwards.
1st quarter, 1842:
District v.# p.#
Horsham vii 376
Newmarket xiv 108
Holywell xxvii 262
Lambeth iv 239
Abergavenny xxvi 49
2nd quarter, 1842:
Poplar ii 297
Your sincerely, etc."
Hopefully, this will yield some results. John Edwards' last place of residence we know of, before London (7 Franklin Row, Chelsea, London 8W3, just before emigration), and emigration, was Birmingham. The birth of Robert, which would have been 1st quarter 1841, just a few mo. before leaving, was not in Birmingham area, according to 1st quarter entries listed above. Neither did his birth take place in the York area. There are, however, some Welsh areas. Hopefully we can nail down Mary Jones' parents here, as well as find the birth of Robert Edwards. Is it possible that they went to stay with Mary's parents in Wales, to have the baby and just before leaving for New Zealand? Hopefully he will be in one of these localities (Holywell, Abergavenny) -- SRE - 21 Jun 2001.
-- Results negative on that search. I tried again 9 Jul 2001, with the result that I had ordered ordered all Robert Edwards entries from 1st and 2nd quarters of 1842, and the 4th quarter of 1841.
"To whom it may concern,
I would like to have you search some references for the birth of Robert Edwards. Please send me full certificates from the birth registers for only those of the following entries which show the father as John Edwards. Some portions of the references are unclear on my copy of the index -- so please look up these four references.
District v.# p.#
4th quarter, 1841:
Poplar ? ?
1st quarter, 1842:
Abergavenny ? ?
2nd quarter, 1842:
Slanrust? xxvii 193
Bumondsey? xv 20
I would also like full certificates from the birth registers for the birth of Robert Edwards (again, for these seven persons please send certificates only for those which list John Edwards as the father), for which I have included full reference information. If any of my following references are incorrect, please look them up in the index to find the correct ones:
4th quarter, 1841
Liverpool xx 345
Liverpool xx 370
Dursley xi 320
Bangor xxvii 293
Bangor xxvii 304
2nd quarter, 1842
York xxiii 659
Wrexham xxvii 277
Yours sincerely, etc."
None of them panned out. It may either be that the age of the child is slightly older than what we think it is, or that Robert wasn't even recorded in the British civil registration records, since they were leaving for New Zealand soon. In the latter case, there's nothing that can be done. If the former case is true, however, it may well be worth checking the civil registration for the 2nd and 3rd quarters of 1841 (even 1st quarter?). The reason this should probably still be checked is that the records showing Robert was 3 mo. may not be completely correct. The application for emigration shows that he was 3 mo. old, and the actual emigration record itself shows the same. If they applied and left immediately left, this may be correct. Or might the ship manifest may just have been copied from the application form, done earlier? Not sure, but if there is a time lag in this case, there may be a time lag associated with the application record itself, as well, i.e., the information (that he was 3 mo. old) might be even older than suspected, perhaps he was 3 mo. old even ealier in 1841 than we believe. Study where this information comes from - SRE 10 Aug 2001.
-- The only thing I can think of trying now, barring this last suggestion, would be to wait for, hopefully, a country-wide index for the 1851 census (or try specific countires of York, Birmingham, counties in Wales, and London counties, followed by those in between). That might indicate his parents. ADdendum: SRE, 2 April 2017: This indeed ocurred and I checked them and found only Charles and Harriett again! resum: Even better would be an 1841 census, though I doubt that such a thing would be forthcoming soon. Perhaps his parents could be found. Hopefully, there won't be too many Robert Edwards Shoemaker's with wife Mary, and born at the proper time. John Sr. and his wife Mary would also surely be on the 1841 census. There is some hope here, since he didn't appear to be on the 1841 census in either Birmingham (his long-time residence) -- at least on the two streets we know he lived on -- or at his address in London, just before he left for New Zealand. I'm hoping they went to see her parents in Wales, and stayed with them for a time. The 1841 census would at least tell us if the person were born in the county, which would be a tremendous boon, especially if the person WERE born in the county of residence at the time of the census.
-- Cameron Deyell, submitter on Ancestry, says he has found John's birth at 27 Jun 1809 in York, Yorkshire, England. I have written him as of 13 Jan 2015 and am awaiting reply.
-- Got a reply. He said he wasn't sure, that it was not his direct line, so unfortunately couldn't help me any more, SRE, 5 July 2015.-- Consider this census: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1841%2f0015187995
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Robert Edwards Male 55 1786 Caernarvonshire, Wales Transcription
Mary Edwards Female 50 1791 Caernarvonshire, Wales Transcription
Mary Edwards Female 20 1821 Caernarvonshire, Wales Transcription
Ann Edwards Female 15 1826 Caernarvonshire, Wales Transcription
Ellinor Edwards Female 10 1831 Caernarvonshire, Wales
